# Plato — Democracy and Education character guide > Plato in Democracy and Education by John Dewey. **Role:** supporting **First appearance:** 0037-iii-the-platonic-educational-philosophy ## Snapshot Plato makes knowledge of man depend on knowledge of nature's ends, turning education into a metaphysical ascent toward the good. ## Who they are In Dewey's account, Plato stands for the Greek conviction that right social and moral achievement rests on rational knowledge, so his Republic becomes at once a treatise on morals, social organization, and the science of nature. He subordinates literary studies to mathematics, physics, logic, and metaphysics, treating naturalistic inquiry as a necessary stage rather than an end in itself. His tension with Dewey is precise: knowledge of nature serves humanistic and ideal ends, and that subordination shapes the whole debate over what education is for. ## Relationships ### [Aristotle](https://www.betterreads.dev/discover/democracy_and_education_se/characters/aristotle) _professional_ Aristotle was Plato's student and later a critical successor, developing his own philosophy while deeply respecting and revising Plato's ideas. ### [Socrates](https://www.betterreads.dev/discover/democracy_and_education_se/characters/socrates) _professional_ Plato was Socrates' devoted student, recording and expanding upon Socratic dialogues as the foundation of his own philosophy. ### [Rousseau](https://www.betterreads.dev/discover/democracy_and_education_se/characters/rousseau) _professional_ Rousseau drew on Platonic ideas about education and the ideal state, adapting them to his own theories of natural development. ## In the story ### [The Democratic Conception in Education](https://www.betterreads.dev/discover/democracy_and_education_se/chapters/vii-the-democratic-conception-in-education) Dewey discusses Plato's educational philosophy, noting that Plato saw education as discovering aptitudes and training them for social use, but limited his view to a fixed number of classes and capacities. ### [The Implications of Human Association](https://www.betterreads.dev/discover/democracy_and_education_se/chapters/i-the-implications-of-human-association) Dewey references Plato's definition of a slave as one who accepts from another the purposes that control his conduct, using it to critique situations where workers lack understanding or personal interest in their socially serviceable activities. ### [III: The Platonic Educational Philosophy](https://www.betterreads.dev/discover/democracy_and_education_se/chapters/iii-the-platonic-educational-philosophy) Plato's educational philosophy is the central focus; he is credited with first consciously teaching that education should discover and train natural aptitudes for social use, though his views were limited by a static, class-based conception of individuality. ### [The “Individualistic” Ideal of the Eighteenth Century](https://www.betterreads.dev/discover/democracy_and_education_se/chapters/iv-the-individualistic-ideal-of-the-eighteenth-century) Plato exercised a great influence upon Rousseau, linking the eighteenth-century ideal of nature to earlier philosophical traditions. ### [Education as National and as Social](https://www.betterreads.dev/discover/democracy_and_education_se/chapters/v-education-as-national-and-as-social) Referenced for his ideal of equating individual realization with social coherence, but constrained by a stratified class society. ### [Summary: The Democratic Ideal in Education](https://www.betterreads.dev/discover/democracy_and_education_se/chapters/summary) Plato's philosophy is critiqued for making a class rather than the individual the social unit, compromising an otherwise formally similar democratic ideal. ### [III: Applications in Education](https://www.betterreads.dev/discover/democracy_and_education_se/chapters/iii-applications-in-education) Referenced indirectly through the discussion of fixed, externally imposed aims that neglect individual capacities, contrasting with Dewey's emphasis on democratic and intrinsic growth. ### [Natural Development and Social Efficiency as Aims](https://www.betterreads.dev/discover/democracy_and_education_se/chapters/ix-natural-development-and-social-efficiency-as-aims) Referenced in the context of industrial education, where Dewey warns of an unconscious revival of the defects of the Platonic scheme without its enlightened method of selection. ### [Social Efficiency as Aim](https://www.betterreads.dev/discover/democracy_and_education_se/chapters/ii-social-efficiency-as-aim) Dewey references Plato's scheme of education, noting that modern industrial education risks an unconscious revival of its defects without its enlightened method of selection. ### [Experience and Thinking](https://www.betterreads.dev/discover/democracy_and_education_se/chapters/xi-experience-and-thinking) Referenced indirectly through the Greek dilemma about learning: either we already know or we don't, making learning impossible—a formal logical puzzle that Dewey critiques. ### [Play and Work in the Curriculum](https://www.betterreads.dev/discover/democracy_and_education_se/chapters/xv-play-and-work-in-the-curriculum) Cited for his analysis of knowledge based on crafts like cobblers and carpenters, illustrating the Greek unity of art and science. ### [The Place of Active Occupations in Education](https://www.betterreads.dev/discover/democracy_and_education_se/chapters/i-the-place-of-active-occupations-in-education) Dewey references Plato's analysis of knowledge based on the arts of cobblers, carpenters, and musicians, illustrating the unity of art and science in early Greek thought. ### [XIX: Labor and Leisure](https://www.betterreads.dev/discover/democracy_and_education_se/chapters/xix-labor-and-leisure) Plato is mentioned in the context of deprecating the learning of geometry and arithmetic for practical ends, reflecting the ancient Greek view of liberal versus utilitarian education. ### [Summary](https://www.betterreads.dev/discover/democracy_and_education_se/chapters/summary) Referenced implicitly through the Greek origins of the division between liberal and practical education. ### [XX: Intellectual and Practical Studies](https://www.betterreads.dev/discover/democracy_and_education_se/chapters/xx-intellectual-and-practical-studies) Plato is cited for his identification of experience with practical concerns and reason with higher, spiritual knowledge, and for his view that philosophers should rule based on rational intelligence. ### [The Opposition of Experience and True Knowledge](https://www.betterreads.dev/discover/democracy_and_education_se/chapters/i-the-opposition-of-experience-and-true-knowledge) Plato is cited as a key philosopher who identified experience with practical concerns and reason with eternal truth, and who argued that philosophers should be kings to ensure rational intelligence governs human affairs. ### [The Modern Theory of Experience and Knowledge](https://www.betterreads.dev/discover/democracy_and_education_se/chapters/ii-the-modern-theory-of-experience-and-knowledge) Plato's view of experience as habituation and reason as reform is contrasted with the modern reversal. ### [Experience as Experimentation](https://www.betterreads.dev/discover/democracy_and_education_se/chapters/iii-experience-as-experimentation) Referenced implicitly through the Greek view that practical activities like cobbling could not yield true knowledge, contrasting with the experimental method. ### [Physical and Social Studies: Naturalism and Humanism](https://www.betterreads.dev/discover/democracy_and_education_se/chapters/xxi-physical-and-social-studies-naturalism-and-humanism) Plato is discussed as connecting knowledge of man and society to knowledge of nature, subordinating literary studies to mathematics and physics in the interest of humanistic ends. ### [The Historic Background of Humanistic Study](https://www.betterreads.dev/discover/democracy_and_education_se/chapters/i-the-historic-background-of-humanistic-study) Plato is discussed as making right knowledge of man and society depend on knowledge of nature, subordinating literary studies to mathematics and physics. ### [The Place of Vocational Aims in Education](https://www.betterreads.dev/discover/democracy_and_education_se/chapters/ii-the-place-of-vocational-aims-in-education) Dewey references Plato's principle that education should discover what each person is good for and train them to mastery, though he criticizes Plato's limited conception of socially needed vocations. ### [III: Intelligence and Character](https://www.betterreads.dev/discover/democracy_and_education_se/chapters/iii-intelligence-and-character) Dewey discusses the Socratic-Platonic teaching that identifies knowledge with virtue, noting that Plato held that true knowledge of the good is achieved only through prolonged education and practical discipline. ## Links - HTML: https://www.betterreads.dev/discover/democracy_and_education_se/characters/plato - Book: https://www.betterreads.dev/discover/democracy_and_education_se - All characters: https://www.betterreads.dev/discover/democracy_and_education_se/characters